Theo Baker spent four years researching Stanford. Before he left, here’s what he found.

Many of Stanford’s Class of 2026 members are smart, ambitious, and ready for great careers. Theo Baker already has it. In his first semester of college, Baker broke the story that forced Stanford president Marc Tessier-Lavigne to resign — a job that earned him the George Polk Award, one of journalism’s highest honors. Warner Brothers and producer Amy Pascal have optioned the rights to the story. And on Tuesdays, with graduation less than a month away, Baker publishes How to Rule the Worldthe larger story of his time at Stanford is a school relationship often obscured by the larger business world. Based on initial interest, it has every chance of becoming a bestseller.

We have been waiting for this (we shared some related thoughts about it a few weeks ago). We spoke with Baker last Friday. These interviews have been edited for length and clarity.

You appeared at Stanford as a coder. How did you manage to break one of the biggest stories in university history before the end of your freshman year?

I came to the conclusion that technology and business were my path. I joined the hackathon group, Tree Hacks, helped run it, jumped to the CS weeder class. But my grandfather, who I was very close to, died a few weeks before I arrived, and he talked more about writing papers for students than anyone I knew. So I joined the student paper to feel connected to him – it was supposed to be fun, a way to meet people and explore schools.

Things moved very quickly from there. My first few articles were received more than we expected, tips started pouring in, and one led me to a popular website called PubPeer, where scientists analyze published research. There were comments, seven years at the time, suspecting that the papers written by the president of Stanford, Marc Tessier-Lavigne, had pictures that were similar, damaged, or unchanged. I was at Stanford for a month when the investigation began, and when I returned for the second year, the president had resigned.

Were you warned about this?

Several times, before I published my first article. People warned me that Tessier-Lavigne was a very honest person with a very good reputation – that I did not want to do this, that it would put me in a very difficult position within the organization. Which, of course, wasn’t wrong. Over the next 10 months, as the story grew, the repayments increased. Within 24 hours of my first article, the board of trustees announced their investigation. I quickly learned that one of the board members had an $18 million investment in Denali Therapeutics, the biotech company Tessier-Lavigne founded. And a statement announcing the investigation praised his “integrity and honor”—for an investigation that was based on his scientific integrity. So the research itself became something to explain. Tessier-Lavigne did not directly respond to a request for comment during my freshman year. After that he started sending out letters to all the schools – which included all my teachers – describing my reports as “very dangerous and full of lies.” Then I started hearing more from his lawyers.

This book is about a lot more, though – what you call Stanford within Stanford. What does that mean?

As soon as I arrived, I realized that there is this parallel reality – an inner world – in which children who have been identified as the founders of the next trillion are removed from society and placed in a world of opportunity. Yacht parties, bad money, everyone texting the same billions for weekend tips. As Stanford has become more popular as a home of the best startups, it has become, according to some at the university, difficult to spot real talent. Many people come to think that they can be the next billionaires that there is a whole system of hangers-on whose job it is to separate the so-called “investors” – people who do it because it looks good – from the so-called builders who have real potential. It is a system designed to attract young people who can make money quickly.

The title of the book, it seems, is not just a metaphor.

No. That’s the name of a so-called private class at Stanford, taught by a Silicon Valley CEO. It’s not really a class. It’s like Skull and Bones for high tech seekers. People are not getting academic credit, but there are workshops, seminars, guest speakers, that happen once a week during the winter on campus. When I arrived, it was a sign of status to even know it was there — something that made you “neighborly,” as one person told me. What this guy Justin was trying to do – as the students in the class told me – is what everyone seems to be trying to do: get in and connect with young people who can be helpful to you, young people. He was the only one who thought how to clothe himself in mystique and make these talented children, promising to come to him, because he was promising them how to rule the world. He promised that the brightest students at Stanford would gather in a 12-person seminar, and the only way to learn these secrets was through him. It is a very painful example of how this system of removing talent has manifested itself in strange ways.

What does the talent search system look like on the ground?

There are VCs who hire Stanford seniors to identify new startups as soon as they arrive on campus. It is deliberately kept hidden. I’ve had people tell me that they feel like anti-sign to join one of the big entrepreneurship clubs, because it looks like you’re doing it for the head – unlike being in one of the secret feeding groups where true builders say to gather. But as there is real talent among children in the world, the first qualification is what you know – whether you are being tapped on the shoulder. There was a CEO who cold-emailed me new year, asked to get to know me. The first time we went out to eat, we went to the Rosewood Hotel, and he sat there feeding his eight-month-old caviar while he kept saying that his first contract was with Muammar Gaddafi. That volatility is something I find fascinating. And this whole system goes a long way to explaining how the great deception begins. It starts with putting too much authority, money, and power in the hands of the youth without adequate protections for when things go wrong.

You got to the point where the FTX crash was happening and ChatGPT was installed. What was this like to watch up close?

His timing was almost unheard of. We came to the end of the crypto craze – the idea when we first appeared was that crypto is how to build your wealth. SBF starts dropping on November 2nd. ChatGPT comes out on November 30. And at the same time everything pivots. I remember being at a dinner just after ChatGPT was released, having one of the biggest crypto boosters on campus, and he told me that SBF was “directionally correct” – that it was a word – but that everyone was trying to find how to get around the rules. And quickly, many of those same people realized that AI was the new craze to jump on. He told me that he could reach the same height as the SBF, preferably without falling, using the latest product. Silicon Valley works in circles, but this one has been a lot of fun to watch up close because the scale is unimaginable.

Do you think your friends are leaning towards business, perhaps because they are worried about work?

Absolutely. The rush to AI has made talent a source of mine in today’s gold rush – key researchers and innovators are more important than ever, but entry points are running out. There is a common denial among people in this country that it is easier to get money from a startup than it is to get an internship. What’s a surprise, right? Business, rather than being an external entity that could be associated with it, has become an expected process. It changes its nature completely.

What is one piece of advice you would give a 17-year-old going to Stanford or any top university today?

You should be careful if you are doing what you are doing because you believe in it and because it is right – or because it is easy. It’s easy to get caught up in trends and technology, only to find yourself losing a job you don’t want because you’re following the path you’re expecting. Following the expected path is less fun than going out and doing it yourself. I admire the good founders who come from this place because they feel empowered to make a difference. You have to be careful that you are doing this for the right reasons – not because you want to gain weight.

You came here thinking you’re an innovator. Still want to start something?

To be honest, I haven’t thought about it – it’s been a struggle to finish the book and get to graduation, which is only a month away. But I think it comes through in this book that I really love journalism. It’s a condition, almost an affliction, more than a job. Whatever I do, it will intersect with that.