Is the US Pope at odds with the US government?

Conservative Catholic podcaster Jesse Romero has some critical words for Pope Leo XIV.

“The pope is supposed to tell us how to get to heaven,” Romero said. “He has no power over the government; he must stay on his own path.”

A supporter of Donald Trump, he is angered by the American-born pope and U.S. bishops’ criticism of his policy of mass expulsions.

One in five Americans consider themselves Catholic, and the church plays an important role in American life and politics.

Catholics like Vice President J.D. Vance and influential legal activist Leonard Leo were a big part of Donald Trump’s electoral success. They are also at the heart of the cabinet, with Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Education Secretary Linda McMahon holding key positions.

But the immigration issue has become a fault line between church leadership and government, as well as among parishioners.

When cardinals gathered for a papal conclave in May, Romero hoped for a “Trump-like pope” who shares similar views to the president.

Instead, Pope Leo XIV has repeatedly expressed his concerns about the treatment of immigrants in the United States and called for “deep reflection” on the matter in November. Citing the Gospel of Matthew, the pope added: “Jesus made it very clear that at the end of the world we will be asked, ‘How did you receive foreigners?'”

A week later, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) issued a rare “extraordinary message” expressing their “concern about the evolving situation affecting immigrants in the United States.”

The bishops said they were “disturbed” by what they called a “climate of fear and anxiety”. They added that they “oppose the indiscriminate mass deportations of people” and “pray for an end to dehumanizing rhetoric and violence”.

This is a major intervention, the first time in more than a decade that the Commerce Commission has used such a communiqué. It had the support of the Pope, who called the statement “very important” and urged all Catholics and “people of good will to listen carefully.”

“I think the relationship is pretty strained,” said David Gibson, director of the Center for Religion and Culture at Fordham University.

Gibson said conservatives had hoped Pope Leo would change the focus of his predecessor, Pope Francis, on social justice and immigration.

“A lot of them are angry. They want to silence the church” and limit discussions to issues such as abortion, Mr. Gibson said.

White House border czar Tom Homan, himself a Catholic, said the church “is wrong” and that its leaders “need to spend time fixing the Catholic Church.” In October, White House press secretary Carolyn Leavitt rejected the Chicago-born pope’s suggestion that the United States’ treatment of immigrants was “inhumane” and inconsistent with “pro-life” beliefs.

Gibson believes the administration’s calculation is that “enough American Catholics, particularly white American Catholics, support the Republican Party and Donald Trump that it would be politically expedient to ultimately fight the pope. That’s an unprecedented calculation.”

Nearly 60% of white Catholics approve of Trump’s handling of immigration, according to a new study from the think tank Public Religion Research Institute. That number is about 30% for Hispanics, who make up 37% of the U.S. Catholic population.

Right-wing Catholics are gaining power and prominence in politics, exemplified by J.D. Vance, a religious convert who says his politics are informed by his faith. While he does not believe the current policy is inconsistent with church teaching, he said there is a responsibility to remember the humanity of those who are here illegally.

But some Catholics say that’s not the case right now. Jeanne Rattenbury is a parishioner of St. Gertrude Catholic Church in Chicago. The city has been a focus of immigration enforcement by the Trump administration.

In November, Ms. Rattenbury attended a massive Mass celebrated by 2,000 people outside the ICE detention center in Chicago’s Broadview neighborhood. The People’s Mass is one of a series of initiatives by the Coalition for Spiritual and Public Leadership (CSPL). The goal, she said, is to “bring communion to the people inside and serve them, which was something that was allowed in the past and is not allowed now.”

CSPL has now filed a federal lawsuit alleging it was barred from providing religious ministry.

“I am proud to be a Catholic when the Catholic Church, from the pope to the bishops, says immigrants have the right to be respected. They have the right to have their inherent human dignity respected,” Ms Rattenbury said.

The feeling is so strong that a church near Boston used a Christmas nativity scene to show that Jesus was a refugee.

St. Susanna Parish in Dedham, Massachusetts, replaced the baby Jesus with a hand-drawn sign that read “ICE is here.”

Some in the community complained, and the Catholic Archdiocese of Boston ordered the display removed, saying it was divisive and violated regulations regarding sacred objects. So far, the church has not done this.

While many American Catholics maintain conservative positions aligned with the church’s positions on issues such as abortion, they are also more likely to see themselves as more progressive than white evangelical Christians, who have voted overwhelmingly Republican in the past three elections. On the other hand, about one-third of white Catholics consistently vote Democratic.

Nearly one-third of U.S. Catholics were born in another country. “This is a church built on immigration,” David Gibson said. “The brand of Catholicism in America is the immigrant church.”

Bishop Joseph Tyson of Yakima, Washington, was one of 216 people who supported the USCCB’s special message. Only five bishops voted against it and three abstained.

“There is a fundamental disagreement between how the Church views immigration in our parishes and how the current administration views immigration.

“We’re seeing more positives in these immigrants.”

He said he was not advocating open borders (a point also made by Pope Leo) but that he was opposed to “indiscriminate deportations.”

“The deportations we are seeing against our parishioners and the American people are not surgical, (or) targeting criminals,” the bishop said.

He estimates that about half of the families in his predominantly Hispanic parish have someone facing some kind of immigration status issue. Pastors themselves are often immigrants, putting the church in an increasingly vulnerable position.

Bishop Tyson said more than a third of his ordained clergy held temporary visas before receiving green cards, a process that can feel precarious in the current environment.

“I have a seminary student in the Chicago area. He was on a T visa, but (ICE) showed up and he was worried he was going to get arrested,” he said.

“Anyone can revoke their documents, (so) we have our people take their documents with them.”

Bishop Tyson believes that the current U.S. policy violates Catholic teaching.

“This should seriously affect the consciences of Catholics in public life who support indiscriminate deportations. It is inconsistent with the Gospel of Life.”

But for Jesse Romero, it’s the U.S. bishops and the pope who oppose Catholic teaching. He believes the catechism is clear that immigrants should obey all laws, including those regarding whether they should remain in the country.

“There is a large group of bishops in the American Catholic Church who hold more modernist, liberal and progressive views on Scripture and theology.”

Romero said he prayed for their conversion. While he acknowledged that the pope and bishops are leaders of the faith, “that does not mean that privately they think they will get everything right. They are men.”

“The only person who has no sin is Jesus. He is perfect. Everyone else, we have to pray for each other.”